帖子主题: 求助:关于《新概念》语法方面的问题(是不是错啦)  

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发表于:2007-03-31 19:31:45

i think, some mistkates appear in lesson 105, "Notes on the text 课文注释".
according to the statement, in the illustrative sentences, an infinitive can be used as an object. for example, "to speak" in "Do you want to speak to her ?" that's correct.
but there are some mistakes in the following illustrative sentences, under the direction “本课用动词不定式作宾语的例句还有:”, you can see, "I want her to come to my office". in this sentence, "her" is the object but the infinitive "to come" is an objective complement, not an object. the same mistake exists in "Tell her to come at once" and "I want you to type it again".
if the last sentence to be changed into "I want to type it again", it becomes a correct sentence.
what's given above is merely my individual opinion.


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The same thing happens in <NCE> Book 2, page 54, "Special difficulties 难点". It says:"有些动词的后面用动词不定式作宾语时,......"
here you see, "a. I asked him to lend me twenty pounds." whom i asked to lend me money ? "him". it's clear that in this sentence, "him" is the object, and in fact, it appears as an objective form. then is the infinitive "to lend" a direct object? no, it's an objective complement.
it's obvious that in the following illustrative sentences, these so called “一个代词或名词(用斜体印出)”: me, Tom, her son, them, us are objects, but the infinitives followed are objective complements, as being mentioned in the course.

moreover, book 2, page 288, the last english sentence: "She did not like to see so many people laughing at him." in it "laughing at him" is an objective complement of verb "like", not "see". the reason is rather simple, make it as "she liked Tom laughs". in this case, you can judge it yourself.
(let's recall, an object and its complement, in general, can be formed the relationship as a subject and a predicate, including clauses.)
anything incorrect in my statement, your criticism will be acceptable.


note: in the last post, i meant, instead of saying " I want you to type it again ", we say " I want to type it again ". it would be suitable for what the author stated.


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补充几句。 我觉得《新概念》出错不是不可能。 下面所说的你是否赞成?

第二册第七十五课的标题"SOS", 译文是“呼救信号”,这就好象把 Lesson75 译作“本书中的一课”。 众所周知, SOS是 "Save Our Souls", 而不是与 "a signal for seeking help"同义, 对不对?
同样,如果“李明的故事”被说成“中国人的故事”,对吗?

再看看各课的“生词和短语”,你会发现类似的情况。

(顺便说,这里“和”改为“与”应该更合理。 你说呢?)


希望有热心人告诉我,关于新概念中的语法问题,我说的是对的,还是错的。 拜托了.
 
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发表于:2007-04-02 08:23:00

 你的想法很有创意!
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发表于:2007-04-02 13:41:00

你真牛!!!

如果从纯粹语法角度讲,你的理解很正确,但an objective complement of verb "like"这种提法存疑,an objective complement of the objective "people"可能更合理一些。

另外,中文版的新概念语法讲解中错误比较常见。再有,在一些语法教材中也有将v. + sb. + to do中 to do 做宾语补足语的情况统一归为不定式做宾语这一用法。

最后,关于译文。我一直觉得新概念的译文比较别扭,中不中,英不英的,跟原书的本意差太多了。至于SOS这个提法,可以理解为意译为“求救信号”。

希望进一步探讨!


 
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发表于:2007-04-03 18:49:00

多谢两位,非常感谢!

千万不要说我牛。 我只是一位英语学习者,还请各位多帮助。

总版主 monsoon 先生:您说的第一条对我很有帮助,谢谢!

第二条,我学的薄冰《英语语法》里,宾语和宾补是分开的。其他书还没看。

第三条,可能是看的角度不同吧,请允许我谈一下:(摘自对一网友的回复)

concerning "SOS" to be translated as 呼救信号 , you see, what about "help"? it''s also a kind of 呼救信号. if there''s a title "help 呼救声 ", will you feel that it''s similar with "true lies 美国大片"?

请多多指教!

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发表于:2007-04-04 08:54:00
SOS, code letters of the international distress signal. The signal is expressed in International Morse code as ...———... (three dots, three dashes, three dots). This combination was established by the International Radiotelegraphic Convention at Berlin in 1906. The letters (SOS) do not refer to any words but were selected because they are easy to transmit. The use of Morse code for sending distress calls is now superseded by automated systems using satellite relay; the U.S. Coast Guard no longer monitors Morse code transmissions. The distress code by radiotelephony is MAY DAY, which corresponds to the French “m''aider.” The signal NC, not followed by a message, also has the same meaning.
这是关于SOS来历的最权威解释,SOS并不是Saving Our Souls的缩写,只是后来大家牵强附会的。它本身只是一个代码,后来在一些紧急情况下被人们使用,于是转变为一种求救符号。至于文章中的翻译,可以不用过多追究,只要我们搞清楚了究竟是怎么回事就可以了。另外,如果你在任何地方写下SOS,大家都会知道有危险发生,你需要帮助。
这跟“True Lies”与“美国大片”不一样的。SOS是一个以讹传讹,并被大家接受了的东西,就像我们现在的字典里“呆板”都注成“daiban”一样,因为大家习惯了,尽管还有一些人事知道这是错的。
再说第二点,宾语与宾语补足语结构称为复合宾语。动词不定式作宾语的例子通常都会包含这一讲,尤其是国外的语法教材,但都会注明与动词不定式直接做宾语是不同的两种形式。
欢迎继续探讨相关问题!

 
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发表于:2007-04-04 19:23:00

monsoon 先生, 原来 SOS 还有这么一个来历和形成原因, 我从来没有在哪种资料里发现过. 您所说的两点都对我很有帮助. 非常感谢!!!

看到 transmission 我想起网址打头的"http", 第三个字母 t 是否应为 transmission, 而"百度"的一篇文章说是 transportation, 是不是错了? 请告诉我.

再次感谢!!!

(百度: "http 全称", 第一篇. 最佳答案里没有; 其他答案里有 Hyper Text Transportation Protocol 和 Hyper Text Transfer Protocol. )

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发表于:2007-04-05 08:32:00

  Hypertext Transfer Protocol

  据考证,应该是这个,呵呵
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发表于:2007-04-05 19:41:00

非常感谢!!! 总版主 先生/小姐:我很荣幸能得到高人的指点!!!

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发表于:2007-04-06 08:11:00

不客气不客气,呵呵
有问题尽管提,我们知无不言,言无不尽

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发表于:2009-02-10 23:27:26
   英语中的及物动词分为单宾语及物动词,双宾语及物动词和复杂及物动词。
   其中有的单宾语及物动词可以跟不定式作宾语。但是当单宾语及物动词跟不定式作宾语时,分两种情况,一种为不带主语的不定式作宾语,比如:"Do you want to speak to her ?"另外一种为带主语的不定式作宾语,比如
"I want her to
come to my office".其中第二种可以跟带主语的不定式作宾语的动词不多,主要是表示喜欢(或不喜欢)或想要(或不想要),(can’tbear, desire, hate, like, love, prefer,wantwish,如:They don’t like the house to be left empty.  I wouldn’t want you to lose your way. 因为这类动词后的名词短语为不定式的主语,而不是动词的宾语,所以这类动词结构没有被动式,如不能说:The house isn’t liked to be left empty.

    而"Tell her to come at once"从形式上看,其结构也是"动词+sb+to do",但是,这个句型中的动词tell属于复杂及物动词,既动词后跟一个宾语,还必须跟一个补语(或状语如put sth somewhere)。因为这类动词后有一个宾语,所以有被动形式。这类动词为数较多,除tell外,还有如
announce, declare, pronounce, report, say, believe, see[只有被动]consider,
expect, suppose,take[带领某人], find, think, imagine, know, understandintend, help, mean, enable, appoint, inspire, equip, name, cause, permit,
drive, require, force, get, lead, allow, dare.

    所以,我认为新概念英语书上说的没有问题。
   相关解释请参考《英语语法大全》(华东师范大学出版社,1985年苏州大学《英语语法大全》翻译组王国富等译校)1653页,1654页,1666页,1667页,1685---1690页相关内容。
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发表于:2013-05-15 21:00:10
Everything is possible in the world.

never too old to learn.
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发表于:2013-06-20 21:53:58
总版主真厉害啊,学习了!
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发表于:2013-06-25 19:46:43
完全赞成楼上的观点!!!

never too old to learn.
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发表于:2013-06-25 21:50:40
是啊,努力学习
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发表于:2013-07-19 09:05:17
哦,我就是楼主---原来的密码忘了。 第一句的“mistkates"拼错了,抱歉!

never too old to learn.
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发表于:2013-09-23 19:09:19

回复#9楼collin的帖子

对于句子 Tell her to come at once, 我原来的分析是:

         (you) tell her to come  at once
           主   谓  宾   宾补     状


书上把其中的不定式 to come 说成宾语,所以是错的。

collin 说,这个句型中的动词tell属于复杂及物动词,既动词后跟一个宾语,还必须跟一个补语。 好,既然“还必须跟一个补语”,也就是不定式to come, 那么,《新概念》的作者把它说成宾语,那还是错的嘛。
个人拙见,请多批评!

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发表于:2013-12-03 09:06:12
SOS, code letters of the international distress signal. The signal is expressed in International Morse code as ...———... (three dots, three dashes, three dots). This combination was established by the International Radiotelegraphic Convention at Berlin in 1906. The letters (SOS) do not refer to any words but were selected because they are easy to transmit. The use of Morse code for sending distress calls is now superseded by automated systems using satellite relay; the U.S. Coast Guard no longer monitors Morse code transmissions. The distress code by radiotelephony is MAY DAY, which corr......
*monsoon*发表于2007-04-04 08:54:00


真牛啊!分享一下英语学习心得吧!


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求助:关于《新概念》语法方面的问题(是不是错啦)


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